Other Weapon Classes

Forum for announcements for and discussing Best of USA Marketing's Operation Irene
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Pope
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Posts: 179
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 4:06 pm
Location: Texas

Other Weapon Classes

Post by Pope » Thu Jul 17, 2014 3:23 pm

Post up your questions about all other weapons classes here.

Heavy Weapons, M203s, AT Launchers, CAWs, RPGs, etc....

NO CO2 ALLOWED!
Pope OLCMSS Chief of Staff

OP Bulldog IX (CoS)
OP Irene XIII (PL)
OP Homeland
OP Bulldog VIII (CoS)
OP Irene XII (CoS)
OP Irene XI
OP Bulldog VII (CoS)
OP Irene X
OP Southern Comfort
OP Irene IX

Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori

AlphaWhiskey
soldier
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Jul 01, 2013 6:14 am

Re: Other Weapon Classes

Post by AlphaWhiskey » Thu Jul 24, 2014 11:05 am

Pope-

RFI on grenades/ shells. Will there be any consideration given this year in allowing the TAG reaper (timed), archangel (impact) or paladin (marking) shells? Also, same question applies to their line of hand grenades which, unlike the pea grenades, do not appear to emit any kind of a flame. I am well aware that currently approved projectiles and grenades are already listed in the core rule set. It also states to inquire with staff about others and that is what I am trying to accomplish here. These products have recently been allowed by other promoters and it seems that more safety data about them has been made available as of late. Thanks in advance brother.

Pope
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Location: Texas

Re: Other Weapon Classes

Post by Pope » Mon Jul 28, 2014 1:03 pm

Good question. I will do a little research and let you know. The Core Rule Set is currently under review by the OLC Chiefs of Staff. So many new manufacturers are on the market now that the list is admittedly incomplete (meant only to give examples).

But you did the right thing bringing it to me. Let me check these out and I will post up a response.
Pope OLCMSS Chief of Staff

OP Bulldog IX (CoS)
OP Irene XIII (PL)
OP Homeland
OP Bulldog VIII (CoS)
OP Irene XII (CoS)
OP Irene XI
OP Bulldog VII (CoS)
OP Irene X
OP Southern Comfort
OP Irene IX

Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori

Pope
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Posts: 179
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 4:06 pm
Location: Texas

Re: Other Weapon Classes

Post by Pope » Wed Jul 30, 2014 9:28 am

These are going to be a no-go. The Reaper and Archangel are pyrotechnics and are a no-go on a military base. It does not matter how they react compared to other devices - the fact that the manufacturer's website lists them as a pyrothecnic excludes them. The same goes for the hand grenade. The Paladin is a no-go because of the residue on Army property. I am not worried about the impact as much as I am worried about the clean-up. We must leave no footprints on Ft Hood.

This is an AO specific ruling and does not necessarily apply to all OLC AOs.
Pope OLCMSS Chief of Staff

OP Bulldog IX (CoS)
OP Irene XIII (PL)
OP Homeland
OP Bulldog VIII (CoS)
OP Irene XII (CoS)
OP Irene XI
OP Bulldog VII (CoS)
OP Irene X
OP Southern Comfort
OP Irene IX

Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori

AlphaWhiskey
soldier
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Jul 01, 2013 6:14 am

Re: Other Weapon Classes

Post by AlphaWhiskey » Thu Jul 31, 2014 2:46 pm

Thanks Jimmy, appreciate your looking into it.

Skip
soldier
Posts: 7
Joined: Sat Aug 31, 2013 9:05 am

Re: Other Weapon Classes

Post by Skip » Sun Aug 03, 2014 6:37 pm

Pope,

Most RPG, LAW and AT Launchers are powered by a co2 cartridge, I'm assuming these will not be allowed according to the 'No CO2 Allowed' rule?

--skip
Demon Hounds
** Skip **
Demon Hounds - Texas
LC-BULLDOG VII : RUSSIAN
AMS-RG XII : US
AMS-ESR 19-2 : UFS
AMS-BH III : UFS POV-14

Pope
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Posts: 179
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Location: Texas

Re: Other Weapon Classes

Post by Pope » Mon Aug 04, 2014 11:36 am

That is correct.
Pope OLCMSS Chief of Staff

OP Bulldog IX (CoS)
OP Irene XIII (PL)
OP Homeland
OP Bulldog VIII (CoS)
OP Irene XII (CoS)
OP Irene XI
OP Bulldog VII (CoS)
OP Irene X
OP Southern Comfort
OP Irene IX

Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori

PMO Gordo
soldier
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2010 12:23 pm

Re: Other Weapon Classes

Post by PMO Gordo » Sun Oct 12, 2014 9:20 pm

Pope wrote:... The Paladin is a no-go because of the residue on Army property. I am not worried about the impact as much as I am worried about the clean-up. We must leave no footprints on Ft Hood.

This is an AO specific ruling and does not necessarily apply to all OLC AOs.
I beg to differ - the chalk is very easy to clean up. Unlike paint, it can be dust off easily. Here's a video of P.M.O.G. Airsoft 40mm chalk-filled projectile shot at my own car:

http://youtu.be/5db0Begh-RQ

FYI:
A short discussion on the safety of TAG and PMOG projectiles:
https://www.facebook.com/pmogarmory/pho ... 49/?type=1

Safety Videos:
http://youtu.be/SNlobal6bqU
http://youtu.be/FocXStzGLA4


P.M.O.G. Armory:
https://www.facebook.com/pmogarmory

AlanJ
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Re: Other Weapon Classes

Post by AlanJ » Sun Oct 12, 2014 10:15 pm

Read what was written ... "We must leave no footprints on Ft Hood. This is an AO specific ruling and does not necessarily apply to all OLC AOs."

Future operations at Ft Hood will depend on us not taking any chances on this.

Pope
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Posts: 179
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 4:06 pm
Location: Texas

Re: Other Weapon Classes

Post by Pope » Tue Oct 14, 2014 6:03 am

And time is not our friend. I don't have the extra staff to be cleaning this stuff up. We are only cleared for the ranges for a window of time. Between set-up and take-down of props and respawns - no time. My staff is outstanding. They stage everything up and can deploy for a 4 hour evolution in under 15 minutes. No room to add tasks.
Pope OLCMSS Chief of Staff

OP Bulldog IX (CoS)
OP Irene XIII (PL)
OP Homeland
OP Bulldog VIII (CoS)
OP Irene XII (CoS)
OP Irene XI
OP Bulldog VII (CoS)
OP Irene X
OP Southern Comfort
OP Irene IX

Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori

PMO Gordo
soldier
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2010 12:23 pm

Re: Other Weapon Classes

Post by PMO Gordo » Fri Oct 17, 2014 11:34 pm

In case someone or the insurance companies are worried about the kinetic injury potentials of TAGinn 40mm projectiles or similar, I'd like to provide some scientific evidence. The kinetic injury potentials of the TAGinn projectiles are similar to or lower than that of .2g BBs shot at 400 fps. Before I dive into research papers and mathematics, let's just look at a simple analogy: throwing a BB vs. a sewing needle at someone. A sewing needle weighs almost nothing, but it's going to hurt a lot more - why? Because the contact surface of a needle is a lot smaller than a BB, which is what most people didn't consider. The signficantly larger contact surface of a 40mm projectile allows higher kinetic energy without exceeding safety limits.

I did the following research while I was developing a cheap alternative to TAGinn projectiles which I called the P.M.O.G. Airsoft / paintball 40mm Projectiles: https://www.facebook.com/pmogarmory

In non-lethal communities, 44 mm indentation on ballistic clay is commonly used as the failure criterion (i.e. lethal potential). The ballistic clay is difficult to prepare, but it is possible to use energy density (energy per impact area; J/cm^2) to estimate the indention on ballistic clay. [Lyon, 1999] I will present the estimated indention on ballistic clay for 0.2 gm BBs, TAG projectiles, and P.M.O.G. projectiles. Given a plastic BB of 0.2 gm fired at 400 fps, the energy produced is 1.86 J and the energy density is 1.48 / (pi * (0.3^2)) = 5.20 J/cm^2. The estimated indentation is 13 mm. Given a 26 gm TAG projectile fired at 130 fps, the energy produced is 26 J, and the energy density is 2.56 J/cm^2. The estimated indentation is 6 mm. Given a P.M.O.G. 2.4 of 25 gm fired at 140 fps, the energy produced is 22.76 J and the energy density is 1.8 J/cm^2. The estimated indentation on ballistic clay of a P.M.O.G. is 3 mm. To present it visually, the graph below depicts the depth of impact on ballistic clay as a function of energy density (adapted from Lyon, 1999) You can see that if we accept shooting 400 fps plastic BBs at each other at 15 ft, TAG and P.M.O.G projectiles are quite safe at even closer distance.

REF:
Lyon, 1999: http://www.dtic.mil/...oc?AD=ADA351529

Image

P.S. I'm actually not coming to Irene this year, but I'd like to make a case about using TAGinn 40mm projectiles or similar in future Lion Claws events.

Batman
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Posts: 242
Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2007 2:53 am
Location: WI

Re: Other Weapon Classes

Post by Batman » Sat Oct 18, 2014 1:31 am

Guys, keep in mind that the rule set is set for this year. If you want something changed for next year, I recommend submitting a written request with the supporting information to Greg Brothers for the 2015 rule set. The event is a week away and rule changes at this point are out of the question. Not only have the base and the insurance companies signed off on the current rules set but also we have to ensure that all players have the information prior to the event so that no one pitches a bitch because they thought something was banned and now it isn't.
Lion Claw Player (or Staff) since OPI IV
http://www.youtube.com/user/BatmanX101?feature=mhee

GregBrothers
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Location: Pittsburgh PA
Contact:

Re: Other Weapon Classes

Post by GregBrothers » Sat Oct 18, 2014 5:59 am

Gordo all of that has been taken into account along with state laws, federal laws, insurance rules, site owners feelings, along with personal testing by LC staff and myself, and QC of the varis tag Products.....the non pryro tags are still under review and have not been ruled out.
Greg Brothers
Director of East Coast Operations
COS NL 1, 2 , 3 , 4 , 5
COS RSE 1,2,3
COS Sharhazad 1, 2
COS LS 5
COS Lions pride
COS Liberty
COS Swift Justice
AOS LS 3, 4 , Irene 12
and prob some other ops i forget them all

Pope
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Posts: 179
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 4:06 pm
Location: Texas

Re: Other Weapon Classes

Post by Pope » Mon Oct 20, 2014 1:58 pm

And - in all fairness - I have a staff member that will be trying these products out (not the marker) at Irene. Under my supervision. Just so we have first hand accounts and evidence. Its the fact that on their website - the manufacturer refers to these products as pyrotechnics that has caused most of us to pause.

In additon - there is some confusion about the proper licensing of distributors of these devices. We do not support the bending (much less breaking) of any firearm laws (especially regarding explosives/pyrotechnics).

From what I understand - this all may be a mute point as the suppliers are getting hit with tons of orders from the law enforcement community. Airsoft may have to wait on these.

So - they will be staff deployed in limited quantities at Irene.
Pope OLCMSS Chief of Staff

OP Bulldog IX (CoS)
OP Irene XIII (PL)
OP Homeland
OP Bulldog VIII (CoS)
OP Irene XII (CoS)
OP Irene XI
OP Bulldog VII (CoS)
OP Irene X
OP Southern Comfort
OP Irene IX

Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori

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